Beto Borges, Director of our Communities and Territorial Governance Initiative, speaks with André Lima, Brazil’s Secretary for Controlling Deforestation and Controlling Territorial Ordinance within Brazil’s Ministry of Environment. Together, they discuss Brazil’s efforts to reduce deforestation and how they intersect with the EU’s Deforestation Regulation coming into play at the end of this year.
This conversation has been edited and condensed from its original version.
Beto Borges: I appreciate you taking the time for this conversation, André. Reducing deforestation is top-of-mind for countries around the world right now, especially with the EU’s new Deforestation Regulation (EUDR), which aims to eliminate all deforestation – legal or not – from the supply chains of agricultural products entering EU countries.
I think Brazil is in a unique position. It is a major source of key agricultural products often linked to deforestation, like beef and soy, yet Brazil’s new government under President Lula and Minister of the Environment, Marina Silva, have also had immense success reducing deforestation rates since they took office at the beginning of 2023. I’d love to hear about some of your strategies for protecting Brazil’s critical forest landscapes, with particular emphasis on what this all means as you’re thinking about the EUDR going into effect at the end of this year.
In fact, I understand you recently had a press conference with Minister Silva where you shared some of Brazil’s latest data on deforestation reduction. What did you all speak about there?
Secretary Lima: Yes. Brazil’s National Institute for Space Research works with our Ministry of Science, Technology, and Information to estimate deforestation rates by analyzing satellite imagery. We recently published data showing an almost 22 percent reduction in deforestation rates in the Amazon from August 2022-July 2023 compared to the same previous period (August 2021-July 2022). It’s also important to note that when this government came into power in January 2023, deforestation rates were increasing by 55 percent. So, in six months, we not only stopped the increase, but reversed it.
Our data also indicate that this drop has continued since July of last year, showing a 55 percent decrease in the deforestation rate in the Amazon from August 2023-April 2024 compared to the same previous period (August 2022-April 2023). These numbers are a positive signal that our current policies are having a significant impact in the Amazon as we work towards our goal of zero deforestation by 2030.
Beto Borges: That’s wonderful to hear, André. Congratulations.
Secretary Lima: Thank you, Beto. However, there are some concerning aspects of these data, too. In the Cerrado, which is a tropical savanna and another critical biome for biodiversity and carbon sequestration, deforestation rates are increasing. From August 2023 to April 2024, deforestation rose 27 percent. This biome is where we want to focus our efforts next.
The element of legal versus illegal deforestation comes into play here as well. The amount of deforestation allowed varies in different biomes in Brazil. For example, in the Amazon, Brazil’s forestry legislation designates 50 percent of all land as protected, meaning no deforestation is allowed. In the other 50 percent, we require that all landowners, including local and indigenous communities, preserve at least 80 percent of their land. So, we can usually infer that much of the deforestation happening in the Amazon is illegal.
In the Cerrado, on the other hand, under 15 percent of lands are protected, and Brazil allows up to 80 percent legal deforestation on private lands. The agricultural sector has a strong presence here as well. It is critical to prevent further land degradation in the Cerrado, which is experiencing the brunt of climate change in Brazil. Between higher temperatures, stronger droughts, and increased fire risk, it’s a lose-lose situation for both the environment and the farmers who depend on it for their livelihoods. Given the EUDR’s strict limitation on even legal deforestation for agricultural production, it can be an important tool to help disincentivize what is still considered legal deforestation in Brazil and encourage more sustainable agricultural production.
Beto Borges: You bring up illegal versus legal deforestation. The EUDR skips over illegal deforestation, going straight for all deforestation. In my work at Forest Trends, we support a combined approach, where best practice is to eliminate illegal deforestation while encouraging sustainable forest management. This raises the floor, forcing laggards to step up and countries to begin a larger shift towards more sustainable supply chains. From here, it’s easier to aim for zero deforestation, while at the same time providing support to local producers as they shift their livelihoods.
I’d be interested to hear your take on this. What does your path to zero deforestation look like?
Secretary Lima: Thank you, Beto. That is an important distinction. In Brazil, we believe illegal deforestation is a pillar of zero deforestation. If we are going to get to zero, we need to strongly combat illegal deforestation. Many of those in the government view the EUDR as something imposed on us without any consultation or open dialogue, putting a burden on Brazilian production. This administration is extremely motivated to put a stop to all deforestation, and the EUDR interferes with our sovereignty to do so on our own, based on what is best for our people.
To reach zero deforestation, we need both legal and economic tools. That means enforcing laws against illegal deforestation, while also using economic incentives like direct payments, payments for ecosystem services, and project- and jurisdictional-based REDD+ to discourage legal deforestation.
That said, I do think the EUDR will support our work towards zero deforestation by shifting economic incentives. The way our agricultural systems are set up, there is currently a lot of economic pressure to deforest in Brazil and across the world. But when a major importer of Brazilian products won’t buy anything linked to deforestation, it removes that pressure to deforest. This will greatly support supply chain transparency and rural landowners to comply with Brazilian environmental legislation.
Let me give an example of how these legal and economic tools can work together using a common situation in Brazil: a person or company will buy a plot of public land on the cheap, or illegally acquire it, and then deforest to profit from the timber sale. Once it has been cleared, they will often raise livestock on it, and then sell the land to grow more agricultural products, like soy. Now there is an entire chain of products over several years all linked to deforestation on the same plot of land.
However, to establish a cattle ranch on deforested land, people need a permit. Something we’re already doing internally is preventing permits from being given to anyone who has deforested illegally. In this situation, the EUDR is an excellent complement. While we are squeezing out illegal deforestation, the EUDR acts as an additional incentive against legal deforestation. The Ministry of Environment’s goal is that we will one day no longer issue cattle permits for even legally deforested land.
Beto Borges: That’s a great point, André. I see how the EUDR can complement some of the deforestation policies Brazil already has in place. I also want to raise a common critique of the EUDR: that it leaves smallholder farmers unsupported. How will the legislation affect Brazil’s small-scale producers who may not have the resources to shift towards more sustainable land management, or who may feel pressure to deforest to support themselves?
Secretary Lima: Thank you for raising that point, Beto. This is a problem we are facing. Let’s look at the cattle supply chain, for example, which accounts for almost 70 percent of deforestation in Brazil.
Livestock farming happens in three phases often carried out by separate smallholders: breeding, raising the cattle, and slaughter. Traceability between these three phases still has many challenges, and the EUDR will require clear visibility into each of these phases. Much of the breeding is done by smallholders, many of whom are lacking financial support or technical assistance and are often operating on deforested land. Even if the smallholders breeding cattle stop deforesting, they can’t control the smallholders who are raising and slaughtering the cattle. If one part of the supply chain deforests, the rest of it suffers.
Beto Borges: Does Brazil have any strategies in place to better position local producers to comply with the EUDR?
Secretary Lima: One program we currently have in place is called the Union with Municipalities to Reduce Deforestation and Forest Fires in the Amazon. The program was created by the Ministry of Environment in partnership with the National Institute for Colonization and Agrarian Reform, the Ministry of Agrarian Development, and the National Rural Extension Agency. We identified 70 priority municipalities for reducing deforestation and invited them to join this program. Currently, 48 of the 70 priority municipalities have joined.
Local municipalities part of the Union will receive funding, technical assistance, and support building sustainable livelihoods in exchange for reducing their deforestation rates. We are also working to ensure land titles for local, smallholder farmers. Legal acknowledgement of their lands is a critical first step to support better land management and keep out encroaching deforestation.
For example, the municipality of Lábrea in the state of Amazonas has typically had some of the highest deforestation rates in the Amazon. However, there was also a major drop in deforestation here from 2022-2023. We are working to have them join the Union, where, in addition to funding and technical assistance, we will support the development of a governance system to help communities protect their lands and maintain good land management practices long term.
The goal of this program is two-fold: first, we want to create positive associations with reducing deforestation. Beto, you mentioned local communities who often feel pressure to deforest to support themselves. One avenue is regulation, like the EUDR, which punishes those who deforest. Instead, we want to reward those who don’t, because keeping forests standing means they will receive essential livelihood support. We’re reframing the idea that deforesting is most profitable, when in fact, not doing so can have just as many benefits, if not more.
Second, putting these structures in place at the local level can help ensure longevity. When local people are driving the change, equipped with the capacity to maintain sustainable livelihoods, their ability to support themselves can transcend national administration changes.
Beto Borges: This is an excellent strategy, and one we are very familiar with at Forest Trends. In Brazil, we work with local and indigenous partners to build local economic initiatives that provide stable livelihoods while being forest friendly. In this way, we are shifting entire value chains to not depend on deforestation.
Secretary Lima: Yes, if we are truly going to eliminate deforestation, we must change the economic incentives behind it. It’s not enough just to pass an import regulation. Shifting the economic system behind deforestation means people will choose to keep their forests standing, and not just because a regulation is forcing them too. We also need international investments to make the regulation effective, including direct support for smallholders and finance for other mechanisms like REDD+ and the Tropical Forests Forever fund. Eliminating deforestation in the Amazon and Brazil’s other biodiversity hotspots is essential for global climate goals, not just for Brazil. It is a goal we must work together to achieve.
Beto Borges: Yes, André. Thank you so much for your time today. Wishing you success in your work.
Viewpoints showcases expert analysis and commentary from the Forest Trends team.
Connect with us on Facebook and Twitter to follow our latest work.